Thief: Deadly Shadows

[Sno]

So i took the plunge, and was pleasantly surprised.

First off, i hate poor packaging, and Thief is packed in a DVD case the size of a small motorvehicle.

It's not like the thing needs it, this game spans only 3 discs, and most of that cavernous case is empty and wasted space.

Where the hell am i supposed to store this monstrosity?

Agghhh! av_eek.gif

Anyways, going on further, the installer crashed. I can assure you that's not the game's fault though, it's a problem with my machine that i've yet to track down and squash. (Actually, the issue has baffled me for quite some time.) Still, it made for a somewhat frustrating start.

Finally i load up the game and find myself greeted by one of the ugliest looking menu screens i've ever seen. (Low res images ahoy! Thank you X-box!)

So you'd think the game would be doomed from the start, but that's not the case.

The gameplay just shines.

I'll be completely honest, i haven't played the original Thief games, but i have played many stealth games.

Where this game succeeds and literally every other stealth game i've played has failed, is that it doesn't feel like you're being forced through a narrow and linear puzzle, and the levels seem remarkably free-form because of it. Every momment is tense and has a tangible sense of danger lingering about, and this strong atmosphere is probably the greatest element to the game. (Garret's an awesome character too. av_razz.gif )

The glitches with the lighting are not as common as some people would have you believe, but they are there and do distract, but i personally applaud Ion Storm for using this innovation so extensively.

The AI also seems worthy of mention, as it's very good, but you'll definitely want to get the patch to see the full extent of things. The guards are perhaps not the most intelligent foes you'll ever face, but the AI creates very believable adversaries.

The sound is very impressive as well, probably some of the best sound-work i can recall from a recent game. For however much the graphical glitches take you out of the game, the sound will suck you right back in. Not much else to say on that, because it's a uniformly excellent element to the game.

I should also mention the 3rd-person and 1st-person camera issue for people concerned about that. Personally, i had no problem with it, and i found myself using both. It's hard to describe in detail, but the 3rd-person camera doesn't break the gameplay like many people thought it would.

It's not a perfect game, but it really shows that Ion Storm learned some lessons after Deus Ex: Invisible War.

I was pleasantly surprised, and i think i'll give out a recommendation for Thief: Deadly Shadows.

*Insert retarded joke about CannibalBob's video-card here.*

[ July 11, 2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Sno ]

[shoboy]

You know, with ION using the newest version of the UNREAL engine for DX:IW and Thief 3, I'm surprised at all the bad stuff with textures and other video problems.

I'll be getting this game when it hits the $20 range.

[ultrabot]

One graphic bug I saw that few (if any) people mentioned is that sometimes the NPC's hair will be glowing a bright color and sometimes have a shimmer like enchanted items in Morrowind.

[Sno]

It's very unfortunate that there's a real disparity between the quality of the gameplay and the quality of the technology.

The leftovers from DX:IW are really the only thing dragging T:DS down.

[MarkN]

Yeah, I'd also like to get it when it drops below $20 and is rereleased fully patched. Of course I can wait since the only game I'm really playing at the moment is MW.

[SirVincealot]

Originally posted by ultrabot:
One graphic bug I saw that few (if any) people mentioned is that sometimes the NPC's hair will be glowing a bright color and sometimes have a shimmer like enchanted items in Morrowind. It's not a bug and the object emitting the glow is their jewellery, which Garrett can steal.

You can remove the "atomic frob glow" (as it is known in the community) with this program. (http://www.graphics-by-john-p.com/textures/Thief-DS/Misc/Misc.html)

This modder has also made a high-rez pack and a retextured Garrett, both projects of superlative quality.

[NO2STARFORCE]

Wow; look at this upgrade..

http://www.graphics-by-john-p.com/textures/DX-IW/Comparisons_12.05.04.jpg

[MarkN]

Pretty cool improvements! I guess that's a patch or mod then?

[Sno]

As of so far, I'm really enjoying this game, and i say that as somebody who was shocked by how sloppy DX:IW was.

T:DS is a really great game, and in my book, Ion Storm has made up for DX:IW.

It's not perfect, but it's enough to have been well worth the purchase.

[Sno]

Damn, as if the game wasn't already spooky enough, Shalebridge Cradle is absolutely freaking me out.

graemlins/av_wacko.gif

Another technical issue with the game is that Garret often seems to get stuck on little bits and pieces of the environment. It's never frequent enough to really detract from the game, but it's common enough to be a pain in the *** when it happens.

[MarkN]

I read someplace, on Avault maybe, where someone thought they were in a safe place to pick a lock and then when they got up and/or turned around there was a zombie right there that then killed them right away, or at least did some serious damage.

[Sno]

I tell you what, i've had such a fun time playing T:DS that i might just give DX:IW another chance.

The story in T:DS is really excellent.

Warren Spector and company are some of the best story-tellers in the industry.

[ July 15, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Sno ]

[NO2STARFORCE]

Problem with DE:IW is that no matter what you do, the 'plot' will continue unchanged.

Get the upgraded texture packs.. they make the title go from Console-ish to PC-ish =)

[NyteByte]

I finished Thief III just 2 minutes ago. Good game. It's a very loooong game, so you really get your money's worth.

Overall worthwhile IMO. Now I'm just waiting for Doom III.

[kinein]

wow that John P guy does such nice work! WOW!

[Sno]

I just finished the game, thought the ending was a bit anti-climactic.

Still, it introduced dramatic changes and has me wanting to play Thief 4 now.

Great game overall, marred only by technical issues.

Recommended.

[spm1138]

My copy came on DVD (UK).

[Sno]

Originally posted by spm1138:
My copy came on DVD (UK). Dammit, nothing ever comes on DVD over here.

We didn't even get the Far Cry DVD edition.

Though we did get the UT2k4 DVD edition.

[kyleh]

I just picked up Thief 3 myself, after some reservations. I didn't like the first two all that much, too difficult and unforgiving for me, like most sneakers.

I'm really enjoying this one though, not sure what is so different about it (since I haven't seen the others in years), but I like it much more than I did the others.

I got the xbox version, though. Boo, hiss! av_wink.gif

[Sno]

You do know about the big bug in the game, right?
There's no fix for it on the `Box.
(The glitch constantly resets the difficulty to normal.)

[dangerballs]

I like how they ended the game the same way the first one started. Clever.

[kyleh]

Originally posted by Sno:
You do know about the big bug in the game, right?
There's no fix for it on the `Box.
(The glitch constantly resets the difficulty to normal.) You mean like 'there is no difference between choosing easy and normal' or do you mean 'you have to reset the mission to easy each time you enter a new mission'? All missions start out on Normal, but you can switch it to Easy as you enter the mission. I've done the first three missions now (initial mansion, escape from jail, and most of the hammerite temple) and the objectives have continued to show easy throughout the missions so far...

[CannibalBob]

Originally posted by Alexander B.:
Wow; look at this upgrade..

http://www.graphics-by-john-p.com/textures/DX-IW/Comparisons_12.05.04.jpg Wowee. The textures suck in the original then, so it seems. I see some huge improvements on some. But, what did they do, add larger textures? What were the original texture sizes, like 50x50 or something? av_biggrin.gif It looks like the textures were upped to something huge like 1600x1200... but how big is this texture pack mod? If it's not big, then the new texture sizes aren't very big.


Also, I've noticed a lot of guys here said, "Oh it's a great game but it's not perfect", or "it's not the best"... just saying it's not perfect. Guess what, *NO* game is perfect... EVER. Every game has a problem! Look at some of the best games out there: System Shock (garbage controls), Deus Ex (just general bugs, horrible AI, unbalanced), Thief (AI isn't as good as they say, some odd bugs, graphics are ugly), etc. So it's OK for a game to be not perfect. But the important thing is how *FAR* from perfect is it? Sounds to be that T3 is a good game (gameplay is good, hence game is good, everything else is irrelevant!). Some of the problems mentioned, like the shadow problems, possible AI issues, etc. are probably being worked on in a patch or driver right now. Those are little problems. The big problem are those that cannot be fixed... like if the story sucks (you can't fix that, unless it's a 500 mb patch, mostly fixed in expansion packs!), or the gameplay is boring or something.


Also Sno, you said you didn't play Thief but played a lot of stealth games. Well, what are some? Did you play Thief 2? I can only think of a handful of *PURE* sneakers: Thief series, Splinter Cell series and Hitman series. Dunno any others... I'd like it if you mentioned some, 'cus I love sneakers! av_biggrin.gif

[Sno]

Originally posted by kyleh:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sno:
You do know about the big bug in the game, right?
There's no fix for it on the `Box.
(The glitch constantly resets the difficulty to normal.) You mean like 'there is no difference between choosing easy and normal' or do you mean 'you have to reset the mission to easy each time you enter a new mission'? All missions start out on Normal, but you can switch it to Easy as you enter the mission. I've done the first three missions now (initial mansion, escape from jail, and most of the hammerite temple) and the objectives have continued to show easy throughout the missions so far... </font>[/QUOTE]Every major level in the game is made up of multiple maps. When you first enter the mission the difficulty you chose will be in effect, but as you start moving between the various maps the difficulty resets to normal. (Things like the awareness of the enemies are affected.) There's already a patch for it on the PC, but it can't be fixed on the X-box. (Since the game isn't even live-aware, it cannot be patched.) It's by no means a game breaker, but it is unfortunate.

[kyleh]

Ah, that is unfortunate. Oh well, it's well worth the tradeoff for the Brightness setting. Someone here said that the PC version didn't have adjustable brightness, and my monitor is much too old and cruddy to properly display a game that is basically 32 bits of black on black. av_smile.gif The demo looked horrible on my PC.

[SirVincealot]

Originally posted by kyleh:
Someone here said that the PC version didn't have adjustable brightness. Absolutely false. That person should be slapped with a fish.

[Sno]

Originally posted by SirVincealot:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kyleh:
Someone here said that the PC version didn't have adjustable brightness. Absolutely false. That person should be slapped with a fish. </font>[/QUOTE]Yup, Vince is right.

[CannibalBob]

Originally posted by kyleh:
Ah, that is unfortunate. Oh well, it's well worth the tradeoff for the Brightness setting. Someone here said that the PC version didn't have adjustable brightness, and my monitor is much too old and cruddy to properly display a game that is basically 32 bits of black on black. av_smile.gif The demo looked horrible on my PC. Use your GFX card driver, the new ones have settings to change your brightness level. Yes, it's slightly annoyance to change it for *every* game, but overall it pays off.

[Sno]

Originally posted by CannibalBob:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kyleh:
Ah, that is unfortunate. Oh well, it's well worth the tradeoff for the Brightness setting. Someone here said that the PC version didn't have adjustable brightness, and my monitor is much too old and cruddy to properly display a game that is basically 32 bits of black on black. av_smile.gif The demo looked horrible on my PC. Use your GFX card driver, the new ones have settings to change your brightness level. Yes, it's slightly annoyance to change it for *every* game, but overall it pays off. </font>[/QUOTE]No, you can change the brightness from right inside the game.

[SirVincealot]

FOR THE GAME-MENU CHALLENGED (notice it's position being the very first option, numero uno, at the top and all that):

http://www.cryptmovie.com/fantastic_realms/personal/tdsmenu.jpg

[CannibalBob]

Game-menu challenged. Heh.

"How do you start the game?"

"Uh... click 'New Game' on the main menu"

"Oh... OHHHH!! I see now!"

[kyleh]

Geez, not my fault, I don't own the PC version. Heh. The demo didn't have the menu as I recall, so I asked in a previous thread (here (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005201;p=2#0000 44)) about brightness options and the Xbox version was recommended. av_smile.gif

[Loppan Torkel]

Anyone know what the "Bloom"-option does??

[Cas]

Originally posted by Loppan Torkel:
Anyone know what the "Bloom"-option does?? It barbiefies all the women in the game av_wink.gif

[Ravenus]

Originally posted by Loppan Torkel:
Anyone know what the "Bloom"-option does?? I assume it uses the DX9 light blooms which give off a more realistic glow.

[SirVincealot]

Originally posted by Loppan Torkel:
Anyone know what the "Bloom"-option does?? The end result is somewhat softer look with a bit less contrast and more aggressive light beams. It affects both vertices and textures.

I find it *less* realistic but more appropriate for the "dreamy" THIEF than for the "gritty" DX:IW. Assets in DEADLY SHADOWS are also more formalized, a style that has erroneously been labeled "cartoony".

[Frazas]

Just a few pics taken last night showing of some cool light effects.

http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~nx7aeu/Thief3_1.jpg
http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~nx7aeu/Thief3_2.jpg
http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~nx7aeu/Thief3_3.jpg
http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~nx7aeu/Thief3_4.jpg

[SirVincealot]

Can't see much. Punch up the gamma and contrast on these suckers.