Sound familiar?

[Thud]

http://edkrebs.com/herb/goeringwithout.gif

[Alaric]

And?

[Thud]

Which dots would you like me to connect for you?

[gorilla325]

hehe, don't we human doomed to repeat ourselves...:D

[Johannes]

*Yawn*
Except that unlike Nazi Germany the US was attacked.

[gorilla325]

well, nazi had to success, for germany was under unfair treatment form WWI. US was attacked alright, but why do i see husein die on TV not bin Laden? i dont' see husein sitting sipping tea besides bin Laden in the so called confession tape of bin Laden...

[Mr No Name]

I'm a little confused. We already went to war. What can you do about it now?

[gorilla325]

confession...? :p

[Mr No Name]

Yea kinda old to be having anti-war sentiments since we already went. Its not like anyone listens to us anyway so what difference does it make.

[Alaric]

Which dots would you like me to connect for you?

All of them please. Particularly I'm interested in the reason for which you post something that is old and known to everyone in order to illustrate a concept that is itself old an known to everyone. Or do you think that you discovered something new and original?

Either way, just because Goering said something it doesn't automatically become canon law. The "common people" are a tricky bunch. They don't want war, but sometimes... they do.

Not to mention the fact that "common people" also didn't want smallpox vaccination for one. The mere fact the they don't want something or other doesn't automatically make them wise.

With that said, I agree that there is nothing wrong with not wanting war. However what you said so far can be restated as: "Rulers manipulate people."

To which I say: "And?"

;)

P.S. - There are also cases where war is good for the state in general in the long run. The American Revolution for instance. Yes it sucked for those who died in it, but who would argue that it was fought to a great benefit of this country as a whole over the span of many generations.

And yes, the "common people" were manipulated into fighting in this war by a bunch of rich influential lawyers. So?

[Thud]

Old and known to everyone? Gosh, when Georgie was talking about WMDs, I didn't see FOX broadcasting this comment from Goering; did you? No, they seemed pretty earnest to me. Are you telling me that you (and apparently everyone else) knew it was a lie all along and just went with along with it because - well, hey the same thing happened with smallpox (wink wink). Yeah right.

No, the fact of the matter is that the government lied and people believed them. And now real people are really dying & really getting injured and maimed for life. And your only response is "So"? Wow, hard to relate to.

And to those who suggest that this war is fait accompli so what's the point, I say this - Iran. Or is that also all a lie staged by rich influential lawyers (I mean - if it worked once, it should work again, right?) that everyone knows and acknowledges?

[kinein]

hmmm Thud you do realize Nazi Germany using the Jews and Christians later on as scapegoats and attackers is vastly different from Al Qaeda, World Trade Centers, Saddam Hussein, and other things to do with the United States.

What your failing to also note is that Nazi Germany was very good at taking something and using it for evil.

A gun in the hands of a rapist and a gun in the hands of a cop are two different things. Please take note and actually sit down and look at things historically and factually instead of trying to say everyone with a gun in their hands is bad.

[kinein]

The only thing resembling that would be the imprisonment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. Which drove away Japanese immigrants in droves afterwards. Good for them tho ~ their country is a much nicer place to live in ^^

[Alaric]

Sorry buddy, but I can't partake in your righteous anger. Governments lied to people for tens of thousands of years. I see no point in being upset only over the latest instance. You should either be equally upset for all of them, which is impossible, or not upset at all.

Every young man at one point discovers a number of truths. I am sure you have already established that Santa Claus doesn't exist. Now you found proof that all governments manipulate people, whether for beneficial or destructive purposes. It's understandable that you want to share this news with the world. You climb up on a building and start yelling: "People, wake up! The government is lying". And all you get is: "Yea, we know, *yawn*."

It's not because you are boring or we don't like you. Not at all. It's just that you bring us really old news. Sorry, but it is pretty hard to get all excited over the same thing for the billionth time in a row.

While you are focused on this issue, ponder this: rulers do not and can not live by the morals of the regular people. Our primary concern is ourselves and our peers. Their's is the state. While it is unthinkable for any of us to send a fellow man to die, they are forced to do it and sometimes in great numbers, if in the long run it benefits the state.

I'm not saying it's good, but it definitely is an unavoidable fact of life. No need to get your blood pressure all up high because of it.

[Thud]

My blood pressure isn't high although I don't think the same can be said for others in this thread. As for your points - well, stating that unless you can tackle all the world's problems, you shouldn't try to tackle any of them is, IMO, defeatist and naive. Had others followed your approach, the world would be in even worse shape than it already is ("sorry Martin Luther King, but if you can't fix the world's pollution problems as well then you might as well just give up on this whole racial equality thing"). LOL.

No, what has been interesting in this thread is to see people such as yourself Alaraic as well as Johannes and kinein essentially agree and defend Herman Goering. Yes, that is very very interesting.

Have a pleasant day. :)

[Alaric]

Very well, o noble knight. Could you please tell us naive defeatists what exactly you have done to tackle world's problems?

(Just so you know, posting on forums doesn't count.)

And it is very unfortunate that you fail to notice the difference between defending Goering and merely recognizing that what he had said is true. He is a bad guy, but you appear to think that due to this fact everything that he had ever said is a lie. Now who is being naive?

But please do go on. I am now genuinely interested in hearing of your exploits aimed at solving all those problems that plague humanity. Do tell.

[Groovus Maxximus]

:banghead:

[BloodySloth]

The fact that we've been lied to has been common knowledge since about the time the war started. I'm really genuinely astonished that you somehow feel this is a revelation.

Also, implying that everyone you disagree with are nazi sympathizers is very mature, original, and witty of you. It works very well to make you look completely paranoid and irrational.

[Chip]

And again another liberal tree hugger equating Republican administration to Nazi's. You know you can take your inuendoes and shove them were the sun don't shine.

[gorilla325]

for those keep yawning....it's wonderful that you guys want to keep thud from depression of those negative thoughts...lol

[Autocratic]

I think it's a misconception by most people that this quote has some kind of particular relevance to the current state of American politics. Using fear to some degree to attain political ends is as old as politics itself. Any dissenter is portrayed as someone who doesn't know what's best for the people. It doesn't have to be to the extent that the Germans did it in the Nazi era. Right now many right-wing politicians in Europe are scaring up votes by promoting a fear of cultural and economic takeover by immigrants. Is there something to be scared of? Maybe. Is it as big a deal as the far-right in many European countries would have you believe? Almost definitely not. The same thing applies to the terrorism issue in the US. Or pretty much any other political issue you imagine. If people didn't have something to be concerned about, a politician couldn't ever win a vote.

[Alaric]

Auto, I'd say it's worse than they make it look.

Look at France. In Paris 50 cars burned a night is considered normal and par for the course.

Look at Sweden. When a woman is raped by a bunch of Muslim youths, she's told to be more mindful of other people's cultures.

Look at Britain. A town is refused jobs on the basis that it is "too white and too English". Personal weapons are completely outlawed and as a result violent crime has surged to the point nobody even knew existed. A guy kills a 78 year old man who challenged him for p*ssing on the street and got 2 years (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/leicestershire/6423103.stm), while a man who defended his own house with a sword from robbers who had guns, gets closer to 10.

I could go on and on and on, but I gotta leave now.

[Autocratic]

Auto, I'd say it's worse than they make it look.

Look at France. In Paris 50 cars burned a night is considered normal and par for the course.

Look at Sweden. When a woman is raped by a bunch of Muslim youths, she's told to be more mindful of other people's cultures.

Look at Britain. A town is refused jobs on the basis that it is "too white and too English". Personal weapons are completely outlawed and as a result violent crime has surged to the point nobody even knew existed. A guy kills a 78 year old man who challenged him for p*ssing on the street and got 2 years (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/leicestershire/6423103.stm), while a man who defended his own house with a sword from robbers who had guns, gets closer to 10.

I could go on and on and on, but I gotta leave now.

These are (exaggerated) examples of political correctness run amok with the exception of the French riot situation, which I think was more socioeconomic (a la LA 1992), incidents like those aren't directly related to immigration as much as a reaction to it, probably designed by non-immigrant politicians. Still this was just an example and not really relevant to my primary point.